Article on the aging SCA membership

[callistotoni]

Apparently this is not just a Western problem. I think the idea of posting on Craigs List is interesting. My gut feel is that, around here, there would be a fear of such a posting (a la "We want to stay safe by not inviting any crazy-types"). But people have to know the SCA is an option, so is it so dangerous to publicize? Or do we believe that "Those that want to find the SCA will"?

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local_state/story/302747.html#storylink=addthis

Comments

[ermine-rat.livejournal.com]

almost all of the new people i meet these days found the SCA boucing around the internet... very different from when you and I started out...

My two pence

[dame-cordelia.livejournal.com]

I would have joined the SCA years earlier if I knew it existed. Even today there may be folks who have never heard of the SCA and would, like me, jump right in at the first opportunity.

You can't want to find it unless you know about it.

[sarahbellem.livejournal.com]

I've given some thought to this, too... But from a slightly less-gray angle. ;) I think the standard opportunities for publicizing the SCA are diminishing in attendance all over the map. Used to be that we'd set up a booth at Baycon or somewhere similar and snag interested people that way... But SF/F Con attendance seems to be going through the same kind of graying problem, and most people whose fandoms would overlap with the SCA already know about it and have either joined or decided it's not their thing. We could start actively courting other fandoms like Furries and Cosplay, whose membership appears to be younger, but who are too different as a group from what the SCA does that it might not translate.

Colleges are still viable, but with all the competing interests of college-aged kids, it's going to be hard for many to squeeze in the time for a hobby, much less be able to afford it. Windy Meads used to be pretty good about getting space at UCD's Picnic Day (the annual university show 'n tell for prospective students/new students and parents), but in the 2 years I was involved with Windy Meads, there were about 2 people who went from signing up at Picnic Day to actually attending a shire meeting. And I never did see either of those individuals actually make it to an event... The nature of university groups is fluid, anyway. St. Merrick's has been dormant for about the last 10 years (it's now been absorbed back into the shire), the Kates goes through cycles of inactivity, St. Cassian's has been inactive since the mid-90s, St. David's sputters to life every couple of years and then falls dormant again... I think the bottom line is that it's just hard for college students to devote the time and energy and resources to keeping their groups active and when they do function, they have trouble sustaining momentum because students are wont to graduate at some point and move on. Also, the SCA isn't really the sort of organization that looks good on a CV, so a student might end up de-prioritizing joining in favor of a more socially acceptable organization, like a fraternity/sorority or an honors society, etc.

Ultimately, it was like I was saying at dinner at 12th Night: Moving things online is probably going to be the best way to inject life back into the organization, on a number of levels. Advertising on Craigslist is kinda ingenious, though I'm not sure how many people would be looking there for something like us... And I worry less about "undesirables" showing up via online publicity, than I do about the fact that the SCA already has a lot of sketchy individuals already within it/around it. I doubt we'd see an increase in drugs, underage drinking, questionably legal practices, abuse, than we already see. It's not like the SCA is this big secret, after all. We're pretty high profile when we roll into town and set up our pavilions, put on armor, etc. Not a month goes by that someone somewhere is publishing an article about the organization in a local paper.

But I'm kinda digressing... We should be looking to new media to draw in members, for sure. Why not have a wiki like An Tir and Caid do? Or a blog that's on a group homepage where newcomers might be able to connect with a "face" of a group (shire/canton/barony/province/principality/kingdom/whatever). In fact, if I were chatelaine of a group, putting up a blog might be the first thing I'd do. That way, if someone manages to follow the bread crumbs to the website, they'd have the feeling of a real person right there to interface with.

That said, this is obviously aimed at computer savy people. There's a big chunk of those in the SCA who are computer/internet inhibited, for whom this won't work. But those aren't the people we're trying to introduce to the SCA...

Anyway, I need to get ready for class. Hope some of this was thought provoking! :)

[lindseyerin37.livejournal.com]

The website for my local SCA is so unfriendly to newbies it is one of the HUGE reasons I've never gotten involved in it, despite my interest. It's geared to people who are already IN the SCA, which is great for them, but not great for recruiting. It says what to do if you want to join (which boils down to, show up to a meeting), but it doesn't explain how to contact actual members or how the SCA actually works. It's almost like it's all in code and if you're not already in the SCA there is no way to decode it. It's very intimidating. And I am not the kind of person to just show up at an event with no idea of the kind of people that will be there or what any of the rules and etiquette are.

So yes, a friendly online presence, a community where you could connect with local members would be EXTREMELY helpful.

[thelbk.livejournal.com]

If we want to recruit youngins' we should work on those Amtgard kids... :-)
(so says the mother of the A&S officer of the 'Shire of the Devil Mountain')
I'm trying to encourage them to come check out March Crown in Woodland.

But gaming conventions should be good recruiting grounds too... and if only we could hold practices at local Gaming stores...

We need to get out there and be seen, not hide away in private practices...

[sarahbellem.livejournal.com]

But gaming conventions should be good recruiting grounds too... and if only we could hold practices at local Gaming stores...


That's a good idea, but I've watched gaming stores close down by the dozens in the last 10 years, and speaking as someone whose generation bridged the gap between X and Y, in-person gaming (table top) has diminished over the last decade in favor of online gaming, anyway. That's the biggest issue, as far as I see... The people who would be likely to join the SCA are getting most of their social interaction online. If an organization doesn't have a good online presence, they're going to ignore it.

[lady-guenievre.livejournal.com]

So true. Heck, for a while, we recruited a bit through our WoW guild, but that never really panned out b/c of location issues -the best we could do was point people at their local group, but that wouldn't be the people they "knew".

[gurdymonkey.livejournal.com]

We already HAVE crazy-types.

Last week, when Linda posted her annual shill for Maker Faire, I asked whether we ever actually get any new blood as a result. For once someone was able to say "yes."

People are into what they're into when they're into it. The economy probably isn't helping matters either.

everything that Sarah said & more

[trystbat.livejournal.com]

I am / have been involved in many different orgs, & the ones that continue to thrive are the ones that changed w/the times. The times have gone digital.

One example: SF cons complain of dwindling attendance, while anime cons gain in popularity every year. A *huge* part of why younger ppl (teens esp.) flock to anime cons is due to sites like cosplay.com where fans can network, show off their work, & arrange to meet at the next con. CC26 did a ton of outreach online to the anime community via cosplay.com & was pretty successful. The next Costume-Con had a terrible online presence & was a dinky event (you don't know how pissed K. was about the damage that did to the brand!).

Imo, it's hard to find out about the SCA these days. Even as a member, I am constantly amazed by how difficult it is to find out when & where events are, who other members are, & how to network w/them. I have to hunt you ppl down! It's like the frickin' freemasons, to be one you have to know one.

Is this just the West? I don't know. But it feels very insular, & the utter lack of a reliable, up-to-date, useful, friendly, interactive online network sure doesn't help.

Re: everything that Sarah said & more

[lifeofglamour.livejournal.com]

It's not just the West, it was like that in the Midrealm. I couldn't find an "in" the whole time I was there and I was already an experienced SCA-er.

Re: everything that Sarah said & more

[lindseyerin37.livejournal.com]

WORD. (Aside from the fact that I am not a member.)

Is this just the West? I don't know. But it feels very insular, & the utter lack of a reliable, up-to-date, useful, friendly, interactive online network sure doesn't help.

Not just there. I've tried more than once to find out about the local SCA with very little luck. I even talked to some members in person at the Ren Faire and didn't find out much useful information.

Re: everything that Sarah said & more

[lindseyerin37.livejournal.com]

I think Trystan knows this, but for those of you who don't, I'm in Illinois.

Re: everything that Sarah said & more

[sarahbellem.livejournal.com]

I can see that we're on the same wavelength (no surprise there). Online promotion is such a huge draw these days. You cite Cosplay.com, but consider too the insane amount of interest that historical costumers generated about Costume College all because of LJ. You and I and our friends were a part of that. All it took was some people with high-profile blogs to say "We're going to Costume College in August and here's all the cool stuff we're planning on doing/teaching/learning!" and suddenly the event is selling out within 24 hours a year in advance. What had been a fairly small event exploded into a huge convention that forced an organization to restructure and move to a bigger hotel due in no small part because of 2 years of increasingly high interest generated from online blogs.

I know when I've taught classes at Costume College, Costume Academy and the SCA, I've promoted via my website and LJ and I had a significant amount of people tell me that they 1) heard about the class from my blog/website and 2) made a point of attending the event so they could specifically be in that class. Sure, you can reach people with print material and word of mouth, but you get a hell of a lot more interest from online promotion, in my experience. Especially from the non-graying demographic, which is far more inclined to use the internet than to subscribe to a paper newsletter. If that's the demographic the SCA is trying to recruit, then it needs to start interfacing with that demographic on it's turf and not expect twenty-somethings to join in droves via word of mouth.

Re: everything that Sarah said & more

[hrj.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I have a good sense on whether the West has more of a problem about this than other areas or groups -- since I have this sort of problem with every organization I've ever tried to join, I assume I'm a bit blind to the nuances. But while reading this thread, I got to thinking about the significant number of Westerners (perhaps Scadians in general?) who focus strongly on the SCA as a social circle, a "chosen family", a non-localized community ... and whether an emphasis on this sort of function as as its inherent reverse side an off-putting effect on those not (yet) part of the community/"family"/etc.

Look at it this way: if you have an organization that is strongly organized around particular objective goals and activities, then your natural recruiting ground is people interested in those same goals and activities. But if you have an organization that is strongly organized around a subjective sense of in-group community, then it can be hard to sell that experience to prospective members who necessarily are not yet part of the community. (And even harder to sell it to people who might be interested in a set of goals and activities but aren't necessarily shopping for a community.)

I've long had a saying about SCA recruitment that "you get what you advertise for". If we're advertising for people interested in joining a tight-knit social club, then not only have we picked a tough sell, but we have a lot of market competition. But how much of our "advertising" truly emphasizes the unique features of the SCA, or those features that we can reliably deliver on, regardless of the vagaries of personalities?

[aastg.livejournal.com]

What problem are we trying to solve, exactly? Is it a problem of perception?

I notice that people are always saying that attendance is down without checking out the actual attendance numbers. From what I've been seeing in the Mists, numbers have stayed steady over the last 3 years. I bet the same is true at the Kingdom level, too.

Our numbers ebb and flow according to many more factors than where we advertise/recruit. Speaking from a service perspective, it's better if we don't get a big spike all at once: it strains what we laughingly call an infrastructure until some few of the noobs can percolate into the service track.

In Cynagua

[hunrvogt.livejournal.com]

What I have seen over all is that revenue is down. In some cases this is because cost for privies and trash are way up. In others, it is a function on not having the same attendance we used to (not making minimums at sites where it wasn't a problem before). Nothing insurmountable - excess costs can be controlled once identified.

Now that being said, I don't think we have had a decrease in folks that identify as SCAdians, and we are seeing a resurgence in local activity with most of our local groups out of abeyance at the same time - that never happens.

Oh, man, now you've got me thinking about this some more.

[aastg.livejournal.com]

I think we are short of teenagers and college-age people, at least based on the attendance numbers I've seen. We could probably use a lot more people who are younger than 40, for that matter.

It was really good for the GSP to have so many kids playing with this time: it was quite a creative shot in the arm. (Many thanks to thelbk for being the conduit that brought Katie, Kate, Aaron and Emily in.)

Most of us who can afford to play don't have kids; for those who do have kids it seems to be hit-or-miss whether the kids stay and play.

New people seem to do best when they have a friend to bring them in. We *used* to get lots of college types because we had Info Stations at universities and demos at cons. Now that we're in the age of social networking sites, really anyone who wants to find us *can* find us. Now I'm wondering about what we have to offer that young people want. Hm.

Re: Oh, man, now you've got me thinking about this some more.

[allison-is.livejournal.com]

I think the problem with getting some college students in is the aging population, at least here in Reno (no offense to any of the Silver Deserters or anyone else). It's harder to identify with people who are on average 20 years older than you. I don't have much of a problem doing it, but others might.

I am going to see if my professor will let me talk to my history class about the SCA for maybe 5 minutes or so as we progress in the semester (past Rome, I see more of a tie-in once we hit The Song of Roland) but even that's not a sure thing as far as recruitment depending on how I phrase it.

The trouble with the SCA is t's full of Scots, er, I mean, volunteers

[gurdymonkey.livejournal.com]

Let's see.... Nope. The West Kingdom Calendar page has still not been updated any time recently. Only three events were listed for January (as opposed to seven in the Page), two for February (six in the Page) and no sign of anything after that. This means that people who do not pay for a membership that includes a newsletter subscription cannot get event information online. Nor are they going to be able to easily decipher who to ask. This is the kingdom website, not the URL of some hinterland canton that's been in abeyance since 1998.

The average local group website isn't always up to date or easy to understand either. What's a seneschal? Or a chatelaine? It never, ever seems to occur to someone to design contact information that reads like "For information on activities and how to get involved, please email Lady Blahdeblah." And please let Lady Blahdeblah be the current contact and responsible enough to respond to such inquiries in a timely fashion. Otherwise people will give up and go back to their WoW or whatever it is they do these days.

Re: The trouble with the SCA is t's full of Scots, er, I mean, volunteers

[sarahbellem.livejournal.com]

WORD.

I cannot tell you how infuriated I am with the WK website, and yes, I know, volunteers and all that... But really? We don't owe it to the Populace to have someone prioritizing the information on the website? The defense that we're a volunteer organization is irrelevant. Lots of volunteer organizations take their online presence seriously enough to make sure the accurate and up to date info is posted on the website ASAP.

Now, I'm lazy as hell, but I know it takes me all of 45 seconds to type up a list of dates and hit "upload" on Dreamweaver. If nothing else, *just* the dates of the events, regardless of whether or not there's a hyperlink available to the event page itself.

Anyway, I'm ranting. I'm sick of ranting. Words without actions are pointless.

Re: The trouble with the SCA is t's full of Scots, er, I mean, volunteers

[gurdymonkey.livejournal.com]

Heh. I just put MY oar in:
http://gurdymonkey.livejournal.com/432314.html

Re: The trouble with the SCA is t's full of Scots, er, I mean, volunteers

[trystbat.livejournal.com]

EVERY org I've worked on has been volunteer, duh. I created the GBACG website back in, uh, about 1996, & put the Great Pattern Review online, & that became a massively popular resource for ppl all over the world. All w/my lameass web 0.5 skillz, yo. That drew tons of ppl to the org from outside the Bay Area & helped create a model for other Costumer Guild chapters.

As S. said above, it doesn't take much. Some net savvy, some enthusiasm, & some content that appeals to a target audience. Does the SCA have this? It could. I've bookmarked some non-WK websites that rock on the info side. Combine that w/approachable newcomer outreach & ya just might get ppl under 40 interested in this crazy hobby...

[joycebre.livejournal.com]

I'd rant, but I've been there so many times before. I just don't understand the reluctance to use modern technology as the tool that it is.

[xrian.livejournal.com]

Volunteers do drop the ball on occasion, but in fairness, in the 15 years I've been involved, this is the first time I've seen the Kingdom calendar have problems. I wonder what's going on.

One of the contributing factors here may be the increasing difficulty in finding people willing to take responsibilities: not only are we all busy, but the things people want to volunteer for, and have the skills and temperament for, don't always match the jobs that need to be done.

For instance, a shortage of chatelaines seems to be part of the difficulty here: the job needs someone who's both extroverted and enthusiastic about recruiting new people. Also, not everyone sees it as a "recruiting" job: some of it is making welcome people who have alredy shown up, and some people focus on the "hospitality" portion and not so much the other.

I can't tell you how often I've heard people say that they either can't find a contact person for their local group or that they tried to contact that person repeatedly with no response.